Guest Guest101 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 It amazes me that week after week Maine Endwell runs the ball down the throats of it's opponents with their double wing offense and opposing coaches do nothing to defend against it. Would love to hear from coaches (activevand former) out there what they would do to slow down that style of attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Ask the teams that have slowed down Sidney from time to time the last several years. They've been running that offense for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldCoach Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 It amazes me that week after week Maine Endwell runs the ball down the throats of it's opponents with their double wing offense and opposing coaches do nothing to defend against it. Would love to hear from coaches (activevand former) out there what they would do to slow down that style of attack. You have to get more defenders upfront, running 4-4 or 5-3. The reason the double wing works so well is the offense gets more people at the point of attack. It is not unheard of for teams to have 9 men in the box against a double wing. Normally, A team will have a featured back that you can key on, and postion personnel to stop him. What makes it tough in ME's case is you have 1 exceptional AND 2 other very good backs. If I were coaching against them, my game plan would be to stop the run....period. If they are going to beat my team, they are going to have to do it by air, and I will take my chances. Watched the ME/UE game....as is typical for most high school team coaches, UE came in with the same defense they played all year, even though they knew the offense they were going to face and ME has beat them a number of times in a row. UE got a huge opportunity when Uceta got hurt and had to leave the game. What happens? they allow Jacoby to continuously run the same play over and over for good yardage every time he touched it and Sorrenti to pick up 6 or 7 on every touch. Did it ever enter UE Defensive Coordinator mind or Head Coach to adjust their defense to stop what was happening. It is mad to continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. What was their Plan B? Sorry, not attacking UE in particular, but it is a very good recent example of coaches not prepared or able to adjust to circumstances. It is not rocket science, if a team's strength is running the ball, you need to bring more bodies up to defend run. Make them do something else they are not so comfortable with to beat you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WSF Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 It amazes me that week after week Maine Endwell runs the ball down the throats of it's opponents with their double wing offense and opposing coaches do nothing to defend against it. Would love to hear from coaches (activevand former) out there what they would do to slow down that style of attack. With the OL and three RB’s ME has they would be successful running any version of the “I” or “T” also. It’s not the style of offense that ME uses, the opposing coaches don’t have the players to stop anything ME throws at them. For section 4, they have an unusually large and talented OL and that’s a coach’s dream. Their backfield is above average, but the OL and DL is they key to this team! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Who is MEs exceptional back? Is they are all very good HS players and All-State, All metro, but none will have outstanding D1 careers, if they decide to go D1. They would all have great D3 careers and enjoy a lot of playing time and success and have fun. Not sure why everyone thinks D3 is so weak. 95% of HS athletes are more of a D3 player than D1. Why go D1 if you'll never play? Waste of a college career to ride the pine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WSF Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Who is MEs exceptional back? Is they are all very good HS players and All-State, All metro, but none will have outstanding D1 careers, if they decide to go D1. They would all have great D3 careers and enjoy a lot of playing time and success and have fun. Not sure why everyone thinks D3 is so weak. 95% of HS athletes are more of a D3 player than D1. Why go D1 if you'll never play? Waste of a college career to ride the pine. One person's opinion: D3 not a good example because there is no athletic scholarship. Financial aid of some sort, but unless your family is destitute you pay something. One person’s opinion: Assuming the same scholarship, I would rather be a special team’s player on a FBS team than star at D2. Same scenario FCS, I’m not sure what I would do. Much larger scholarship D2 or FCS, I would probably follow the $. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldCoach Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 With the OL and three RB’s ME has they would be successful running any version of the “I” or “T” also. It’s not the style of offense that ME uses, the opposing coaches don’t have the players to stop anything ME throws at them. For section 4, they have an unusually large and talented OL and that’s a coach’s dream. Their backfield is above average, but the OL and DL is they key to this team! . I agree with your statement, but I was taking the original question as how best to defend, which to me is more defenders in the box. Take the ME/UE game, UE was using 4 DBs. Was UE Coaches first concern the pass? Is ME known as a great passing team? If no is the answer, then why 4 DBs? You put more hands on the ground on 1 & 2nd down, and the main job of your front four (who in teams playing ME with their tremendous size and strength) is to clog the running lanes, make pileups, not penetrate. Two guards acting as nose tackles, two tackles. Front four slant to motion(middle liner calls). Ends (play just outside wings) crash hard making plays bounce to outside. Both outside backers have flats and everything should funnel to them. Middle linebacker has to be your stud to read and react. Two corners. It is not perfect, but forces power play teams to go to plan B. Not saying it is easy or fool proof, but letting team do what it does best is not pretty either. You bleed a slow death, just ask UE. 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 E T G G T E LB LB LB C C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldcoach Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I agree with your statement, but I was taking the original question as how best to defend, which to me is more defenders in the box. Take the ME/UE game, UE was using 4 DBs. Was UE Coaches first concern the pass? Is ME known as a great passing team? If no is the answer, then why 4 DBs? You put more hands on the ground on 1 & 2nd down, and the main job of your front four (who in teams playing ME with their tremendous size and strength) is to clog the running lanes, make pileups, not penetrate. Two guards acting as nose tackles, two tackles. Front four slant to motion(middle liner calls). Ends (play just outside wings) crash hard making plays bounce to outside. Both outside backers have flats and everything should funnel to them. Middle linebacker has to be your stud to read and react. Two corners. It is not perfect, but forces power play teams to go to plan B. Not saying it is easy or fool proof, but letting team do what it does best is not pretty either. You bleed a slow death, just ask UE. 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 E T G G T E LB LB LB C C Please disregard play sketch from my last response, as it did not translate well when it was posted.(characters were all moved together) . suppose to be 6 line, 3 backers, 2 DBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Please disregard play sketch from my last response, as it did not translate well when it was posted.(characters were all moved together) . suppose to be 6 line, 3 backers, 2 DBs. It may have worked if you used a fixed-width font like Courier New which I am using here. Will know in a minute after I post this. 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 E T G G T E LB LB LB C C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 It may have worked if you used a fixed-width font like Courier New which I am using here. Will know in a minute after I post this. Nope :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WSF Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I agree with your statement, but I was taking the original question as how best to defend, which to me is more defenders in the box. Take the ME/UE game, UE was using 4 DBs. Was UE Coaches first concern the pass? Is ME known as a great passing team? If no is the answer, then why 4 DBs? You put more hands on the ground on 1 & 2nd down, and the main job of your front four (who in teams playing ME with their tremendous size and strength) is to clog the running lanes, make pileups, not penetrate. Two guards acting as nose tackles, two tackles. Front four slant to motion(middle liner calls). Ends (play just outside wings) crash hard making plays bounce to outside. Both outside backers have flats and everything should funnel to them. Middle linebacker has to be your stud to read and react. Two corners. It is not perfect, but forces power play teams to go to plan B. Not saying it is easy or fool proof, but letting team do what it does best is not pretty either. You bleed a slow death, just ask UE. 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 E T G G T E LB LB LB C C The QB is far from the star of this team, but LU would kill you with long pass receptions and the others aren't bad either. I would hesitate to put 8 or 9 in the box. I'm afraid they would score more against this than a 3 or 4 deep D. If you had an especially good safety who is fast and a good tackler you could consider moving your DB's in a step or two to disguise the fact that your safety is moving into a deep LB position on the snap of the ball from the "3 deep look" to stop the run. He would have to be quick enough to recover if it’s a pass though, or you’re in deep shit. But still, the bottom line is you need the players to match up. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 The M-E offense isnt a 2 wing offense. It is has a tight slot and split end to both sides, so its a 4 receiver set which really spreads you out defensively due to the multiple option plays they run. They run an option play on the defensive tackle and to the defensive end to both sides. They run off tackle and kick out the end. They also have sprint passes, bootlegs, play action and straight drop. Toss, counter and trap are also staples. How do you stop them? Very difficult to do beacause the option makes you have to tackle 3 people wether they have the ball or not. You have to tackle the FB, you have to tackle the QB (2 people have to be assigned to the QB because he cuts up over the FB on the option of the defensive tackle ands he also runs down the line towards the defensive end) and you have to tackle the pitch back. So 3-4 defenders on both sides are accounted for. Now you also have to account for the tight slot and split. They can run block or go out for a pass, so you have to account for them. So now that is a total of 5-6 people that have to have an assignment. If they pull a guard, now your out numbered. Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest My Opinion Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 If post #12 has their offense correct, the best standard defense would be a 44 stack with DT's head up on guards and DE's playing inside shade on the tight slots, LB's stacked over corresponding linemen. Defensive backs standard coverage would be man-1, with a wide-side shade of FS. The next best would be the Bear defense. If #12 is incorrect, and they run something closer to the double tight, double wing O that Corning West ran in the late 90's early 2000's, a 53 with a beastly DT is best (topic of another post). With past experience defending a similar style offense on both HS and collegiate levels, 44 stack affords the defense the best chance at eliminating parts of that style of offense. It does not give the guards an easy chance to pull, it keeps the box stacked, and the DE position should force the ball back into the middle part of the field, where the strength of the defense is. The triple option/veer/misdirection combination offense is difficult to defend 100% at the HS level, so you have to take away the parts you can, to force them to be one dimentional. Everything is contingent upon a few factors.... the DE's play an outside in technique AND stay at home. DT's must be big enough to hold their ground, and make a pile if they are double teamed (not be driven 10 yards back). The ILB's must be disciplined enough to stay at home and fill a hole, OLB's must be athletic enough to run fill or cover. CB's must be able to cover down field, and the Safety must be the most intellegent player on the D to not bite on the fakes and be the last line of defense against a big run.Oh, and everyone must know their assignment on the option, and adhere to it. If I were coaching against ME, I would definitely take risks defensively. I would be constantly stunting and blitzing; nothing would be standard. I would give the ME offense as many different looks in the box as I could, trying to confuse the offense. No one is going into the game against ME as the favorite, so you are going to need to take chances and make big plays to even have a shot at beating them. For a team in Class B to come close to defeating ME they will first have to be almost as good or as good as them (or definitively better, which there isnt). I find it hard to believe there are many teams that can match up with Maine Endwell. They are big enough to wear you out and fast enough to run right by you. Very tough to play against in HS. The team that could beat them would then have to play a near flawless game (in all 3 phases). If there are any Sec 4 or 3 coaches checking these out because you are scratching your bottom trying to defend them, good luck. Been there.... And just to stir the hornets nest in Maine Endwell.... This team is not a slam dunk over any of the CForks teams in the early/mid 2000's. This ME team reminds me of those CF teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 And just to stir the hornets nest in Maine Endwell.... This team is not a slam dunk over any of the CForks teams in the early/mid 2000's. This ME team reminds me of those CF teams. Just the 2002 and 2004 teams, most assuredly the 2004 team. Them and this M-E team ARE all in the same league. Anyone who thinks otherwise just weren't paying attention and/or are not now. 2004 CF rolled the competition averaging MORE points than M-E at this point in the season right now and less against, and won their three state playoff games by a wider combined margin in the history of AA, A and B classes. I think only one team on the east side of the state can possibly give them a game, and likely won't, Alden. Chittenango has no chance. East side can never count out Section 1. This is M-E's title to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Just the 2002 and 2004 teams, most assuredly the 2004 team. Them and this M-E team ARE all in the same league. Anyone who thinks otherwise just weren't paying attention and/or are not now. 2004 CF rolled the competition averaging MORE points than M-E at this point in the season right now and less against, and won their three state playoff games by a wider combined margin in the history of AA, A and B classes. I think only one team on the east side of the state can possibly give them a game, and likely won't, Alden. Chittenango has no chance. East side can never count out Section 1. This is M-E's title to lose. Couldn't agree more. The '02 and '04 CF teams were really stinking good, and I would put this ME team in that class- so long as they win a title. But in other posts I have seen people say they were best ever blah blah blah.... One thing I question is where people would put the ME title team from (I believe) '05 (class of '06)? They were a pretty solid team too. I agree about the competition.... Not too many Class B schools have the size, speed and strength of this ME team. It will be great to see them run at a title, a team of this quality is great for Section 4 football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 One thing I question is where people would put the ME title team from (I believe) '05 (class of '06)? They were a pretty solid team too. It was 2004. Their title game, beating Wallkill 39-36 was right after CF dismantled Rye in record fashion. That 12-0 M-E team was good, but they were a team of destiny and in my opinion, not nearly as good as M-E 2012 and CF 2004. They were, after all trailing in all three playoff games and, if I recall, by 3 TDs in the second half of their first round game but came storming back. Granted, it takes a hell of a team to make that comeback and have comebacks in their next two games, but that team gave up way too many points on the season to be in the discussion with M-E 2012. Their last four games that season they gave up over 100 points. Teams in the "Best" discussion do not do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 It was 2004. Their title game, beating Wallkill 39-36 was right after CF dismantled Rye in record fashion. That 12-0 M-E team was good, but they were a team of destiny and in my opinion, not nearly as good as M-E 2012 and CF 2004. They were, after all trailing in all three playoff games and, if I recall, by 3 TDs in the second half of their first round game but came storming back. Granted, it takes a hell of a team to make that comeback and have comebacks in their next two games, but that team gave up way too many points on the season to be in the discussion with M-E 2012. Their last four games that season they gave up over 100 points. Teams in the "Best" discussion do not do that. ME only trailed in the playoffs in the Aquinas and Burnt Hills game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 If post #12 has their offense correct, the best standard defense would be a 44 stack with DT's head up on guards and DE's playing inside shade on the tight slots, LB's stacked over corresponding linemen. Defensive backs standard coverage would be man-1, with a wide-side shade of FS. The next best would be the Bear defense. If #12 is incorrect, and they run something closer to the double tight, double wing O that Corning West ran in the late 90's early 2000's, a 53 with a beastly DT is best (topic of another post). With past experience defending a similar style offense on both HS and collegiate levels, 44 stack affords the defense the best chance at eliminating panrts of that style of offense. It does not give the guards an easy chance to pull, it keeps the box stacked, and the DE position should force the ball back into the middle part of the field, where the strength of the defense is. The triple option/veer/misdirection combination offense is difficult to defend 100% at the HS level, so you have to take away the parts you can, to force them to be one dimentional. Everything is contingent upon a few factors.... the DE's play an outside in technique AND stay at home. DT's must be big enough to hold their ground, and make a pile if they are double teamed (not be driven 10 yards back). The ILB's must be disciplined enough to stay at home and fill a hole, OLB's must be athletic enough to run fill or cover. CB's must be able to cover down field, and the Safety must be the most intellegent player on the D to not bite on the fakes and be the last line of defense against a big run.Oh, and everyone must know their assignment on the option, and adhere to it. If I were coaching against ME, I would definitely take risks defensively. I would be constantly stunting and blitzing; nothing would be standard. I would give the ME offense as many different looks in the box as I could, trying to confuse the offense. No one is going into the game against ME as the favorite, so you are going to need to take chances and make big plays to even have a shot at beating them. For a team in Class B to come close to defeating ME they will first have to be almost as good or as good as them (or definitively better, which there isnt). I find it hard to believe there are many teams that can match up with Maine Endwell. They are big enough to wear you out and fast enough to run right by you. Very tough to play against in HS. The team that could beat them would then have to play a near flawless game (in all 3 phases). If there are any Sec 4 or 3 coaches checking these out because you are scratching your bottom trying to defend them, good luck. Been there.... And just to stir the hornets nest in Maine Endwell.... This team is not a slam dunk over any of the CForks teams in the early/mid 2000's. This ME team reminds me of those CF teams. 4-4 sounds good but without a nose ur very weak against trap? Midline? I would think a 5-3 with a rotating secondary to M-Es motion would work best. Bring the cover 2 safety up opposite their motion and go cover 1 on their SE and tight slot to motion and on their SE opposite the motion. OLB to motion has QB to pitch as well as the DE. Midline and trap are stoppable, everyone should be covered on pass plays, and you have an extra defender rotating to the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 ME only trailed in the playoffs in the Aquinas and Burnt Hills game Learn to read. The post was CLEARLY about the 2004 team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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